351 winchester vs 30 carbine

The work must have been done in the tool shed, but the rifle was a shooter. I have a .356 Win. Federal does not market any of their .350 Legend options as elk cartridges. The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Trigger Housing Group Fusion Ammo has a 200-grain with a muzzle velocity of 2800 f.p.s. .30 Carbine Combo - Shooting Times There have been many others, such as the .35-30 Maynard (both in the 1865 and the 1882 versions) and .35-40 Maynard. Many companies now offer bolt, semi-auto, and single-shot rifles chambered in the Legend, but the .30-30 can be found in the same variety. Townsend Whelen wrote back 100 years ago that the 32 WSL and 35 WSL were good deer cartridges for their ranges. To put this into perspective, a Boeing 737 commercial airliner travels at a cruising speed of 600 mph, or 880 fps. Mag. The original 1941 load specifications for the Ball M1 round was 13 grains of WC 820 Ball propellant, a .308-inch 110-grain round-nose (RN), flat-base (FB) projectile traveling at 1,900 feet per second (fps) at 53 feet from the muzzle with a chamber pressure is . Bottom line? Remington Green/Yellow: 1983 fps. The Model 351 C is an AirWeight variation of Smith & Wesson Centennial Model. Weight-wise, the .30 Carbine is also a bit of a disappointment, clocking in at 12.70 grams per round of M2 .30 Carbine Ball ammunition, heavierthan the far more capable 5.5645. The .38 Smith & Wesson Special, designed in 1898, rocked the handgun realm with its ballistic performance making it a cartridge for the history books. As such, the following is for comparative information purposes only and should not be used to make precise predictions of the trajectory, performance, or true ballistics of any particular .30 M1 Carbine or .30-30 Winchester rounds for hunting, target shooting, plinking, or any other usage. Accuracy was always regarded as fair at best from Model 07 carbines. The .358 Win. Whitetail hunting strategies for the next generation. The .30 Carbine was developed from the .32 Winchester Self-Loading used in an early semi-auto sporting rifle. I have one, of course, and it is fun to shoot, but I would never use it on a serious big-game hunt. He can be reached via email at [emailprotected], being one of the very first* intermediate calibers. If we compare the .300 Win. Due in large part to the limited utility of those cartridge,the Model 1905 was not a major commercial success. [6] (. You cant compare it to todays AR 15s. 200-grain bullet to almost 2500 f.p.s. The .351 SL cartridge used an unusual bullet diameter of .351 instead of the .357 or .358 more commonly used in .35-caliber rifle cartridges. The Taurus Raging Thirty and AMT AutoMag III were also offered in .30 Carbine.[10]. The .30 Carbine's relatively straight case and round nose bullet have misled some to believe it was designed for . H Winchester Round Barrel Rifle, made in 1882. SMOOTH PATINA METAL. I have a 32 sl, 2 x 35 sl,351 and a 401. Rifles; Sako Rifles; Savage Rifles. Still, the mild working characteristics of the .30 SL allowed the design of a very lightweight and simple gun, in a similar fashion to how the blowback-friendly .32 and .380 ACP rounds allowed the Kel-Tec P-32 and P3AT to be much smaller and lighter than their blowback counterparts. 351 winchester for sale on GunsAmerica. Buy a 351 winchester Prices have skyrocketed on the Models 05, 07, 10. The .30-30 Winchester and .35 Remington won't break any speed recordsthere's no doubt about that. Gun #: 943226118 . The .30 Carbine uses a lighter bullet (110 grain versus 165 grain) and improved powder. Mag. could have been necked down to .30 and would have made a better round for the M1. The weapon was originally issued with a 15-round detachable magazine. Still, I hope its clear how closely these cartridges stack up. What's Going On With .350 Legend? - The Truth About Guns In some ways, the United States military decided this Caliber Battle in 1957. The muzzle velocity was stated to be 1850 fps, and the muzzle energy 1370 ft.-lbs. So a .30 M1 Carbine round exits the barrel with kinetic energy equal to the energy required for linear vertical displacement of 960 pounds through a one foot distance, while a .30-30 Winchester round exiting the barrel has energy equal to the amount required to displace 1890 pounds over the same one foot distance. The .350 Legend is popular enough to justify continued production but not popular enough that the shelves are bare. Deadshot Boxed Combo Shooting Bag - Unfilled. 80% BLUE, NICE BORE. This stumpy little cartridge was introduced to the hunting public in 1908 and is the only surviving member of the early class of Remington rimless cartridges. Foundry Outdoors is your trusted home for buying archery, camping, fishing, hunting, shooting sports, and outdoor gear online. Its often thought that if they had it would have gained popularity over the .338 Win. Rifle Ammunition For Sale In Bulk Quantity - Outdoor Limited Lever Action Rifles: Winchester .30-30 vs Marlin .30-30 With this matchup, the winner depends on the specific loads being compared. loaded with a 180-grain Oryx bullet to the .358 Norma Mag. Still, much like the old man who can rattle your teeth with a punch, appearances can be deceiving. from a 20" barrel. I did read a article that said in the 1920s, the military tried experimented using a Remington model 1908 in 25 Remington and soldiers liked shooting it as compared to bolt action 30-06. and is a good cartridge for hunting the thick woods for deer, hogs, black bear or even elk. I have used the .35 Whelen on critters from bobcats to moose. Jim in Idaho #7914589 07/19/13. While a few gun writers in the 1960s criticized the .351 SL for being inadequate as a deer hunting round, and the round's power has sometimes been compared to a .357 Magnum carbine load, the .351 SL's killing power falls somewhere between the .30-30 Winchester and the .35 Remington. Probably well over half of the production for the last ten years went to police organizations in the United States. Most used hard and put away wet. That is to say, .30 M1 Carbine bullets travel 2.3 times the speed of a 737 airplane at cruising speed, while .30-30 Winchester bullets travel 2.7 times that same speed. Both cartridges use an unusual bullet diameter (.352 and .406 respectively), but its still possible to find soft point, FMJ, or cast lead bullets to use for reloading. By comparison, the .30-06 M2 cartridge for M1 Garand rifle fired a ball bullet weighing 152 grains (9.8 g) at a muzzle velocity of 2,805ft/s (855m/s) and 2,655ftlbf (3,600 joules) of muzzle energy. Ruger's fine New Model Blackhawk extends the .30 Carbine cartridge's versatility. Right now, I think that the Browning BLR lever-action rifle is the only production gun left on the market in .358 Win. 351 winchester vs 35 remington - look.perfil.com Even today it occupies a strange halfway point between pistol and rifle cartridges, being similar in design to a long pistol round or magnum revolver round with its straight-walled case and round-nosed bullet, but loaded with rifle powders designed for the 18 barrel of the handy little M1 Carbine. The M1 used an unusual gas-operated system designed for a special .30 caliber cartridge. The .351 WSL actually used .351-inch bullets. The .35 Win., .35 Newton and .350 Griffin & Howe Mag. were to go head to head with the .25-35 Win.,. Posted February 22, 2017 in Ammunition, AR-15, Daily News, Guns & Gear, Other Gear & Gadgets, Rifles by Nathaniel F with 123 CommentsTags: .30 carbine, 7.62, 7.62x33, assault rifle, ballistics, carbine, drop, Education, energy, history, M2, performance, personal defense weapon, rifle, second world war, us carbine m1 .30 cal, velocity, world war 2, world war ii, ww2, wwII, Left to right: .351 WSL, .30 M1 Carbine, .45 ACP, 5.7x28mm SS190, 5.56x45mm M193. This new model featured two new cartridges, the .350 Rem. If that's what floats your boat. But the military has hundreds of millions of 30-06 ammo from WW1, and didnt want a new caliber. & scope has rust alon WINCHESTER 21 12GA 30 F/M. [9], The popularity of the M1 carbine for collecting, sporting, and re-enactment use has resulted in continued civilian popularity of the .30 Carbine cartridge. We offer cheap ammo and bulk ammo deals on the most popular ammo calibers. Show Only with Pictures Winchester also produced a load firing a 250 grain bullet at 1,870 feet per second (1,942 ft-lbs of energy). SMOOTH PATINA METAL WITH GOOD WOOD AND A NICE BORE. By experience, they would come to handle it semiautomatically, but it took prolonged battle hardening to bring about this adjustment in the human equation. Folks tend to duck when they hear the slide action put into play!! Shaw will make a rifle, as will any other custom, or semi-custom, riflemaker. Yes. There are also thousands more .30-30 guns floating around the used market, so if youre looking to save some change, the older cartridge is the way to go. The Model 1910 rifles were also prone to cracking of the forearm. Winchester 1907 I believe was made in 1908 semi automatic 351 caliber has a couple of clips with it. As illustrated in the chart, .243 Winchester rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 3180 feet per second (fps) while .30 M1 Carbine rounds travel at a velocity of 1990 fps. Ruger briefly chambered the M77 rifle in .35 Whelen. Winchester and Hornady both offer 200-grain loads at 2475 f.p.s. Other articles said reloaders would resize 41 Magnum bullets (.410), down to .406 to use in the 401 WSL. I'm kind of surprised the .351 wasn't made originally to use .357 bullets, since that bore size had already been established by that point. Caliber Battle: .30-30 Win. vs. .350 Legend | MeatEater Hunting This means I will earn a small commission (at no extra cost to you) if you make a purchase. The 32 Winchester Self-Loading Cartridge is the parent case for the 30 Carbine. Winchester Model 74 Semi-Auto, Pre-War .22 short. Another $300. A typical 35 Remington factory load (200gr bullet at 2,080fps) has about 5% more energy than a normal 30-30 factory load (170gr bullet at 2,200fps). Of course, not all .35-caliber cartridges approach greatness. pushes a 200-grain bullet to just more than 2000 f.p.s. Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351 Considerations for Handloading World War II-Vintage Rifle Ammunition ", Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II. 98% OVERALL. The .356 Win. I can remember reading that years ago in hunting magazines that the Model 1910 was popular in Alaska, that even Barnes Bullets made .406 bullets for reloading the 401 WSL. The two really dont compare. The loud blast is the most oft-mentioned characteristic of the .30 Carbine cartridge when fired in a handgun.[10]. A Poignant Historical Reminder, The Winchester Model 1907. [5] Most ammunition available today for the .351 SL is produced by a few boutique manufacturers, often using either cast lead bullets or copper-plated bullets or, occasionally, .358 jacketed bullets resized to .351 or .352 caliber. The M1 Carbine is VERY reliable, sufficiently accurate for most urban needs, and is feather light. If you get a GI M1 carbine (only ones worth considering) then youll have a REAL military weapon. The .350 wins that power matchup, but this 170-grain .30-30 option offers 1,827 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle while this heavier, 180-grain .350 Legend only produces 1,762 ft.-lbs. In a now-famous story, Roy Weatherby launched his wildcatting career after he lost a wounded deer on his first hunt in 1942. When chambered for cartridges such as the .243 Win., 6 mm Rem., .308 Win. By and large, we shooters seem to gravitate to the middle of the road; to bland, yet predictable, mediocrity. from a 20 inch rifle barrel, which is lower than any .30-30 load published in the Winchester ammo catalog. Most have had an active life in the woods earning their keep, not being just stored away in the closet. Save your pennies and hold out for the M1 Carbine then save your pennies and start stocking away ammo and magazines. Javascript is required. Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351 For more detailed ballistics information please refer to the exact round in question or contact the manufacturer for the pertinent information. Army Ordnance Major Rene Studler persuaded Winchester that the Winchester M2 .30-06 rifle, a design started by Ed Browning and perfected by Winchester engineers including Marshall "Carbine" Williams, could be scaled down for the .30 Carbine cartridge. But in 2003 Remington decided to attempt a resurrection. One way to think about this is as such: a foot-pound is a unit of energy equal to the amount of energy required to raise a weight of one pound a distance of one foot. I wonder if some army brass had a 32-20 lever action rifle and thought that a semi auto rifle in 30 caliber would be good for combat? The .30 Carbine, for all practical purposes, is a scaled-down Winchester .351 SL. . This listing is for ONE Magazine. Own and shoot both. Again, the above is for comparative information purposes only, and you should consult the exact ballistics for the particular .30 M1 Carbine or .30-30 Winchester cartridge you're looking at purchasing. At 300 yards, it has 19 percent more energy than the .300 Win. Generally speaking, the higher the muzzle energy, the higher the stopping power. . As illustrated in the chart, .30 M1 Carbine rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 1990 feet per second (fps) while .30-30 Winchester rounds travel at a velocity of 2370 fps. This ammunition is often loaded to lower velocities in consideration of older firearms which have not been properly maintained, and large differences are seen over the chronograph relative to vintage .351 SL ammunition. and .35 Rem., it was an excellent woods rifle for hunting whitetails. This 170-grain .30-30, for instance, drops 7.7 inches at 200 yards and 26.6 inches at 300 yards. Since .22 caliber cartridges of that time period were not loaded to uniform ballistics, Winchester specifically developed the .22 Automatic Winchester Rimfire cartridge for reliable functioning in the Model 1903 rifle. With a 200-grain bullet the .35 Whelen actually shoots a bit flatter than the .30-06 Sprg. The .350 wins that power matchup, but this 170-grain .30-30 option offers 1,827 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle while this heavier, 180-grain .350 Legend only produces 1,762 ft.-lbs. Mag., and I think thats the only current production rifle in that cartridge. First year gun, manufactured in 1939, Pre-WWII. Hornady Custom: 2018 fps. That seems to happen a bunch to the rifles that had an active life! Sell your 351 winchester for FREE today on GunsAmerica! The velocity and energy figures in this table are taken from various sources including the Federal, Remington, Weatherby and Winchester ammunition guides and the 9th Edition of the book Cartridges of the World by Frank C. Barnes and edited by M.L. .30-.30 caliber In excellent used condition. Any series covering this topic would be incomplete without a look at the round, however! The .35 Rem. When Winchester was asked by Ordnance to develop a round for a new echelon weapon to complement the .45 cal 1911 handgun, their engineers fell back to the basic design of these rounds, adapting the .32 WSL into what was called in development the .30 SL, virtually identical to todays .30 Carbine. Dubbed by Winchester as the "fastest straight-walled hunting cartridge in the world," the 350 Legend certainly seems to be designed to fill a particular role in those states which limit big-game hunters to straight-walled rifle cartridges. Do not take the 1907 apart. Unfortunately, finding .401 or .351 Winchester ammo is also pretty difficult as well, though its still possible to find the odd box of factory ammunition and the necessary reloading supplies from places like Buffalo Arms. Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351, Re: Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. As a result, it has approximately 41% higher muzzle velocity with 27% more impact energy than the parent .32 WSL cartridge. The .25 Rem., .30 Rem. But they are so few in number that no general conclusion can be drawn from them. Probably over half the Model 1907 and 1910 rifles Ive examined over the years have a cracked forearm. Equipped with 10 round magazine to go along with a slightly beefed up forened and buttstock to resist cracking, many Model 1907 semi-auto rifles were acquired by many police departments to serve alongside the Thompson submachine gun in .45 ACP in an effort to give their officers more firepower. Still, the .30 Carbine is a round that has taken considerable criticism for its lack of performance, so its worthwhile to take a look at exactly how it does in comparison to other rounds used for the same purpose: Here we see pretty much exactly what wed expect: A round that starts out quite admirably thanks to its goodvelocity and energy, but which tends to underperform at range due to its dumpy ballistic coefficient. [6] But for the handloader who has taken the time to replace the recoil spring and buffer in the Winchester Model 1907, the .351 SL can be loaded to its original velocities. Show Only Guns and .32 Rem. Both of them had Long Tom 94's in 30-30 Winchesters. .351 Winchester Self-Loading - Wikipedia These seemingly small differences added up to a significant . With a 200-grain bullet at 2460 f.p.s., it is a heavy-hitter on whitetails. Gun guys recognize the potential in the .358. Winchester Model 74 semi auto .22 short. Manufacturer  Smith & WessonbrbrModel  Model 351 PDbrbrSKU 106228brbrCaliber  .22 MagnumbrbrBarrel 1.875 Stainless SteelbrbrCylinder  Aluminum AlloybrbrOverall L Smith & Wesson 103351 Model 351 Classic 22 Mag 7rd 1.88" Black Stainless Steel Barrel Matte Black Aluminum Cylinder & Frame with Black Polymer Grip & No Internal Lock MFR # 103351 (103351) New Smith & Wesson Model 351 Classic chambered in 22 Mag. Access the newest seasons of MeatEater, save content, and join in discussions with the Crew and others in the MeatEater community. These were theWinchester Self-Loading (WSL) rounds, including .32 WSL, .35 WSL, .351 WSL, and .401 WSL. factory load is a 250-grain Oryx bullet listed with a muzzle velocity of 2723 f.p.s. Perhaps thats how it should be, the masses rarely embrace true greatness. The US .30 cal M1 Carbine is one of the most important developments in the personal defense weapon story, being one of the very first* intermediate calibers to be adopted as standard issue by a nation, and arguably the first purpose-designed PDW caliber in history. Its too bad that no other companies picked up the 32 WSL, 35 WSL, 351WSL and 401 WSL . Another article, said at first Winchester wanted to use the 32 WSL for WW2, but military brass wanted 30 caliber, so Winchester designed the 30 Carbine, still popular today. Mag. 350 Legend has more energy than the 351 WSL and less recoil than the 450 Bushmaster. Paul explains the differences between the Winchester and Marlin .30-30 lever action rifles.Paul's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=5769301 This video . Head to Head: 350 Legend vs. .35 Remington - An Official Journal Of The NRA The Remington Model 600 Magnum rifle, along with the cartridge it birthed, was just such a product. .30-30 Win. vs. .35 Rem. - Caliber Battle | MeatEater Hunting Buy 3, however, or any 3 non gun non ammo items, and shipping is Free on the entire order. can drive the same weight bullet a bit faster. All Types (1000+) Claw extractor bolt action rifle, target stock, 1961 manufacture date, metal is in 99% condition, perfect bore sho Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester, 26" barrel, claw extractor bolt action rifle, target stock, 1961 manufacture date, metal is in 99% condition, perfect bore sho Winchester 23 Golden Quail .410g. The competition in this category is just as close as ballistics, but right now, better availability gives the edge to the .350 Legend. I read Thompson made a experimental rifle in 351 WSL. Old School Gun Test: Winchester Model 1907 .351 SL . The M1 carbine was issued to infantry officers; machine gun, artillery and tank crews; paratroopers; and other line-of-communications personnel in lieu of the larger, heavier M1 Garand. WOOD HAS A REPAIRED CRACKS BUT IS SOLID. At 400 yds., the .358 Norma impacts 3.1 inches lower than the .300 Win. This is the Winchester model 1906 .22 LR pump action 20 in. Winchester still offers ammunition, but the guns are history. GUNS Magazine Winchester Model 1907 - GUNS Magazine Even the military wouldnt use semi or full auto ( hand held) fearing soldiers would shoot too much ammo. Released in 2019, the Legend was designed for use in states that restrict deer hunters to straight-wall cartridges and was billed as the fastest such cartridge currently in production. It was designed to improve the range and stopping power of the M1 carbine. We have a variety of deals on Rifle Ammo, Handgun Ammo, Shotgun Ammo & Rimfire Ammo, as well as ammo for target practice, plinking, hunting, or shooting competitions. Neither cartridge produces stiff recoil. Remington loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s. America's Rejected Caliber | An Official Journal Of The NRA Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .30 M1 Carbine round averages out to 960 ft-lb, while a .30-30 Winchester round averages out to about 1890 ft-lb. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. One of the oldest and most popular cartridges of all time, the .30-30 Winchester, was released in 1895 and has been bringing down all manner of game ever since. However, Winchester experienced great difficulty in the development of their autoloading rifle and the unique calibers designed for it. while finding .30 carbine ammo can be a challenge at times, finding adequate quantities of .351 SL would seem an impossible task. Shortly before World War II, the U.S. Army started a "light rifle" project to provide support personnel and rear area units a weapon with more firepower and accuracy than the standard issue M1911A1 .45 ACP handgun and half the weight of the standard issue M1 Garand .30-06 rifle or the .45 ACP Thompson submachine gun. The 351 WSL looks like a somewhat larger version of the 30 Carbine round, although the 351 is more powerful. Which cartridge comes out on top in this battle of old school vs. new? WINCHESTER 07 351 SL 5RD Magazine; ORIGIN USA CALIBER .351 SL WEIGHT 7.75 LBS. The first design was further modified for Winchester's second prototype, adopted September 30, 1941 as the Carbine Caliber .30, M1. . Does anyone know if any gunsmith ever converted a 30 Carbine to 32 WSL? LENGTH OF MAGAZINE 5.99? Cumpston, Mike, "The .30 Carbine Blackhawk: Ruger's Enduring Dark Horse", "CARTRIDGE AND CHAMBER DRAWINGS CENTERFIRE RIFLE", "Rimless cartridges, Calibres of rifled long centre fire weapons for rimless cartridges", "BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch:: .357 Mag Results", "Liberator's Truimphal March Through An Ecstatic Island", "The .30 Carbine Blackhawk: Ruger's Enduring Dark Horse", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.30_Carbine&oldid=1152171899, Winchester Repeating Arms Company cartridges, Articles with failed verification from July 2020, Pages using infobox firearm cartridge with unknown parameters, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 28 April 2023, at 17:05. Apr 21, 2013. appearance wise, i am partial to the Winchester M94. The barrel is a full 22 inches, like it always should have been, but the foolish design with the huge shark fin front sight turned hunters off, and it was dropped. was introduced in 1955. The following ammunition cartridge ballistics information and chart can be used to approximately compare .30 M1 Carbine vs .30-30 Winchester ammo rounds. and the 6.5 mm Rem. This gun has a story. For quality hunting ammunition, expect to pay $30-$45 for a box of 20. Kahr makes the M1 Carbine but they are priced as high a original which i would hold out for if i was in the market for one . The .358 has 24 percent more energy at the muzzle than the .300 Win. Winchester 351 Self-Loading: Truly Amazing! - YouTube This makes sense: the Legend was developed specifically for use in Midwestern whitetail states that require straight-wall cases. You might already know this. Mossberg .22 LR models 340 340A 340B 340M 342 342K 344 344K 346K 346B 350 350K 351 352 352K 353 Rifl Winchester mod. There are a few problems with this answer. The record contains a few examples of carbine-aimed fire felling an enemy soldier at this distance or perhaps a little more. Note: some of the links below are affiliate links. Oddly, its bullet diameter is truly .351-inch instead of the .358-inch normally associated with rounds such as .35 Whelen, .35 Winchester or .35 Remington. The decision for which round is better for a given application should be made with complete information, and this article simply serves as a comparative guide, not the final say. is a wonderful cartridge, but nobody buys them.

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