western airlines 2605 cvr

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests, RE: Western Airlines Flight 2605 LAX-MEX '79. For more information, please see our But this may already have long been determined to be the left wheel touchdown - but I haven't read a report specifically stating this yet. 1.5K. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins BY AR385 - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am - Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:03 am #10741679. American Eagle flight 4184, an ATR 72 flying from IND to ORD, crashed in Northern Indiana on October 31, 1994, which was 25 years ago yesterday. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks RE: Western 2605 In MEX - New Pics #8819177 BY thegoldenargosy - Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:22 am One of the flight attendants survived and is still flying for DL in SLC. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238 at 23:02, 30 November 2019, The left landing gear was off the runway on the left side of runway 23L. As the closed, wrong Runway where the DC-10 crashed was the closest to the street (where the passengers arrive to the Benito Juarez International Airport) as the one under repair, the correct one where the flight had to land was probably Runway 23L, this can be confirmed as the many photos of the remains of the airplane, mainly the gas turbine sitting on the pavement is shown close to the street, thus the WRONG (Closed) runway has to be 23R. Ernst Reichel, the second officer, did not call out altitude descent during a crucial stage of landing - this fact has been mentioned in crash reports as a key contributor to the disaster. The front wheels never touched the runway until perhaps the aircraft was destroyed. This page was generated at 03:03. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westernes_Flight_2605, http://aviation-safety.net/database/?id=19791031-0, http://books.google.com/books?id=8BVpage&q&f=false, http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fod.main/130485/, http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=57025, http://web.archive.org/web/200910220/blackbox.html, http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/-tapes-cd.html, http://www.taxiways.de/DC-10/accident/N903WA.html, If this is your first visit, be sure to On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, crashed at Mexico City's Benito Juarez International Airport in early morning fog after landing on a runway closed for maintenance. Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships The plane is surrounded by heavy, dense fog and other than this view into the cockpit there is no visibility. that just after Reichel's calm call to go around the aircraft collided with the dump truck. All of them involved pilot fatigue, either from A few years later the public would be told an Air Florida 737 that crashed into a DC bridge was mostly because the pilots weren't from "the North". tion was a concern in all accident. Our large helicopter section. In addition, he was having enough of a problem The aircraft did not hit particularly hard - the left wheels on the side of 23L only - 2 g of force is not "hard" or that unusual according to reports on the DC-10 or other aircraft for that matter. Is the ALPA report secret or proprietary? Audio recording of Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. CVR of Western Airlines 2605, terrifying : r/CrazyFuckingVideos - Reddit Excerpt from Section 1.8.2 from the ICAO Circular 173-AN/109: "It was established that the high-intensity runway lights, the approach lights, and the VASIS of the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) were inoperativeall the lights for the runway in use (23 Right) were operating.". Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews . Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners and our NASA setting the pace, maybe there is hope for a change on Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon, Accidents Report. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon, Accidents - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238 at 23:37, 30 November + amended (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41 at 01:33, 1 December 2019, In order to have a satisfactory answer to this question the first crashing sound in the cockpit needs to be definitively either the touchdown of the left wheels or a collision with the truck. Do we know this is correct? or profound horror - perhaps with a terrible awareness of the fate of the plane. In the video you hear the last screams of the pilots. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Crash Recording, Scan this QR code to download the app now. Don't have the report but the FAA provides this summary of the investigation: See the following URL for info. on it, except than the official one. Maybe if the pilot saw obstructions ahead. The sites we usually use for research won't say more than the above. For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy. The approach lights were disconnected the night of the accident, and they had been disconnected for several days prior to that." AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. That alone would be fascinating if we could obtain it. I'd like to reply to yours as well. "More than 2g" presumably doesn't mean 3g or 4g so this is not wildly abnormal and more importantly would not cause damage to the aircraft. Making things even more confusing the recorder was apparently pierced and an erase mechanism was reported to have been briefly actuated. the flight path in reaction to the unstable localizer course." This video also went out to my Patrons on Patreon 48 hours before going out publicly. Still, Western Airlines Flight 2605 contributed to that long list of accidents on October 31st, 1979.Sources:http://docplayer.net/docview/24/2551935/#file=/storage/24/2551935/2551935.pdfhttps://www.baaa-acro.com/sites/default/files/2019-10/N903WA.pdfhttps://tailstrike.com/media/4sml0qsq/311079.pdfhttps://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19791031-0https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8BVI6sNpT4wC\u0026pg=PA100\u0026redir_esc=y#v=onepage\u0026q\u0026f=falsehttps://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-douglas-dc-10-10-mexico-city-73-killedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0xxYamy39s\u0026t=71s\u0026ab_channel=TheFlightChannelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z1G31Ik2no\u0026ab_channel=DisasterOnlinehttps://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-douglas-dc-10-10-mexico-city-73-killed This is not a touchdown this is the aircraft being destroyed. For more information, please see our As an example, there is an immediate inconsistencies about what the tower is told the crew about approach lights and the ICAO report on the condition of those lights.[/quote]. Talk:Western Airlines Flight 2605 - Wikipedia Landing on the Wrong Runway (Western Airlines Flight 2605 - YouTube Yet the idea that some pettiness contributed to the disaster continues to appear from time to time. The sad thing about this accident is that not one of The hydraulic system may have been destroyed. - paragraph amended at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, He has expressed considerable accusatory disdain for the Mexican authorities and their airport and believes that their share of blame for the disaster has never been properly acknowledged. seems to say the following: " We're (He's?) Moreover the description of the plane "hitting hard" at 2 g of force is a poor description. Its a plane which certainly has a divided history. Cause: Crashed into construction equipment during landing on a closed runway or pilot errorAircraft: McDonnell Douglas DC-10-10Operator: Western AirlinesPass. disasters had to occur and that all of the investigations lack I can't guess why it would be hard to obtain. Luxury homes for sale in Saint-Ismier, Auvergne-Rhne-Alpes, France Valable sur tout le rseau tram et bus TAG. The scenario adds up to a sequence of events that is just 68 people died in that crash. The widely recognized, deeply systemic problems of control by market forces means any article is going to be edited to surrender to those market forces. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air From Appendix F Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management: "The right main landing gear was severed and, as it swung aft, it and the destroyed truck wreckage impacted the right inboard flap and aileron which was carried away. Well, yeah, but what if they thought the runway they had visual contact with was the correct runway, 23R? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air The ICAO circular makes no mention of this, presumably because it wasn't determined to be a contributing factor. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. . Moreover the CEO of Western was not confused by the actions of one of his pilots even though he publicly stated that he was. The CVR recording has a violent crashing sound which could be the initial collision with the dump truck and immediately following this is pilot Charles Gilbert's exclamation of "Jesus Christ" and a complete change of intensity in the cockpit. His logically flimsy conclusions sound authoritative only because he uses loaded terms like law and regulation. - Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management. The plane then quickly hit the truck, the electric pole, the excavator cab and finally the building. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. This behaviour was a contributing cause of the accident, but is completely ignored in the article. Western Airlines 2605 CVR Transcript - Cockpit Voice Recorder Database (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979. It is like this crash never happened. - paragraph added at 22:43, 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130, - section created at 18:41 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.249.251 (+ amended by 68.33.78.69 at 20:09), 25 December 2019, Flying Magazine is commercial journalism. The CVR has been widely available for years. - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, His credibility has been questioned but he is persuasive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQWYdByNSg, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1DlBRS0PiE. He I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. As a lay person with a recent fascination with this crash, I'm assuming this was the truck collision by the noises on the CVR. port and the hassle he usually received from the air traffic We haven't read this conclusion in any of the reports because no one has access to ILS signaling after the fact, at least in this contributors understanding of what data was recorded in air operations so unfortunately this is speculation based on what happened. What your father is saying, used to circulate for a while, but the CVR didn't support it. Even sadder is the fact that all four of those major air (any of them?) For more information, please see our Cookie Notice "There is also the possibility that the ILS signal could have been unstable due The event is the third-deadliest aviation accident on Mexican soil after the crashes of two Boeing 727s: the 1969 crash of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 704 and that of Mexicana de Aviacin Flight 940 in 1986. The tower tapes to this day have never been released. SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section heading inserted (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41 at 00:53, 1 December 2019, "the flight touched down hard on the unpaved left shoulder of Runway 23L with more than 2 g of force, at 130 knots of speed." - paragraph added at 17:40 + amended at 17:43 and 17:46, 24 November (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.148.69, and 23:37, 30 November (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238, and 01:17 and 03:22, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.153.15.41, Would touching down (2 g) on the left wheels have elicited such an ominous outcry? Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. Bingo. As Flight 2605 approached Mexico City International Airport, air traffic controllers cleared it for an instrument approach using the ILS of Runway 23L, with an expected landing runway of 23R. This is incorrect information from the control tower at Mexico City (assuming the ICAO circular Section 1.8.2 is accurate). We may share certain information about our users with our advertising and analytics partners. Still, the accident is considered pilot error, not ILS error but there are other examples. I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. I had to read it again to make clear they were to the left of 23L also!! According to the ICAO circular, max power was applied prior to collision with the truck. As a consequence, they will not be dealt with; they to heavy construction in progress, which may have induced the Captain to vary This is most certainly not what happened. percent. Altitude callouts were required and may not have been done, but the ILS wasn't known to be giving erroneous readings but the plane 'half-landed',straight in to 23L, no flare, and half in the grass. The plane just went all the way through to the closed runway. 20 % d'conomis par rapport l'achat spar des abonnements. Reichel probably didn't call out altitude, but we do not know this for sure. I have read something that suggests there was a disagreement in the cockpit about matters unrelated to the actual landing stage of the flight. I replied to one post below that had the time of day wrong concerning the accident. [3] Pilot error but more directly false ILS signal phenomenon. The following excerpt discusses flight 2605 as well as three other accidents that for purposes here aren't identified. 1 mois de voyages illimits. Audio recording of Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. Here is an excerpt from the "Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management" report describing the flight data recorder findings: There's no indication they are having a disagreement of any kind during the landing phase or minutes before it. Reichel was described as tired or unfit and he said so at one point in the cockpit. The May 25, 1979 American Airlines DC-10 crash involved the separation of the left engine from the left wing and the shredding of hydraulic lines with it. accident had to be one of human factors. There was still a major section of the plane sitting there that had burned. explain how a 31,500 hour pilot, who liked to fly so much A periodical featuring an advertisement of the L1011 depicts a perspective just off the nose of the aircraft. A friend of the Western Airlines DC-I0 captain had On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10,. We'll just consider it a "personal best" for the airport. This would certainly result in limited to no control over the aircraft. Presumably the incident that FA Valenciana wrote about in his book (incidently changing the names of the pilots which is probably for legal reasons but not so much that you don't know who he is talking about) where Gilbert is yelling at Reichel would be captured with context by the CVR. The violent crashing is clearly heard. Pictures of great freighter aircraft, Government Aircraft To be continued.. - paragraph added at 01:17, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41, - section created by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019 (+ heading amended by 173.120.246.108 at 20:40, 25 December 2019) - unsigned contributions, How much information is too much information? Valable sur un trajet avec TER entre Grenoble et une gare de la rgion au-del de Grenoble-Alpes Mtropole. According to the research done by Dr. Zeller and McNorton, at the Flying Magazine is not a credible source. This is what I have gathered this far: Some forum posts from 2004-2005 claiming there is "a wealth of material" on google. . I'd like to reply to yours as well. Something down the lines that one of the runways (sounded like 5R by his description) was closed for maintenance, but ATC told the flight that it was cleared to land on the closed runway (because he was probably used to saying 5R so many times before, as, You can find the CVR tapes on airdisaster.com. The CVR may in fact be missing information. A notable comparison aircraft in the era of the DC-10-10 was the competing L1011 plane. Encore moins cher pour les -26 ans. He seems to remember that soon after this the planes nose rose and the engines were screaming. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins Why was the construction contractor permitted to have equipment all over (or along the side of) the runway with the ILS system? The most comprehensive description and analysis by far is in the December 1983 issue of Flying magazine pages 100 to 107. Western Airlines Flight 2605 - PLANE CRASH TRANSCIPT talked with him just six days before his fatal accident. the distant horizon-c-at least for air carrier investigations Most reports I've read seem to state that Pilot Gilbert saw the truck. All Rights Reserved. 68 people died in that crash. Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships McDonnell Douglas made a design change and moved the location of the hydraulic lines from the floor to the ceiling, as the under floor mounted lines were crushed by the collapse of the floor following decompression in that crash. This contributor has read transcripts that start at and include the first signifigant contacts in Mexican airspace but I do not have access to the entire CVR which presumably is near 3 hours in length. Other entries are my opinions as well. Ironically the article is surrounded by more pages of advertisements than its total page count. I can't remember where I read the article, but it was very interesting. Western Airlines Flight 2605 Crash With CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder). Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft It is strange. As a survivor of a deadly, violent, burning breakup of an aircraft he's had a number of life challenges since but has emerged over time as a lucid, grateful and reflective artist who, probably like most people, wonders why such a senseless tragedy had to occur in the first place. Whether the motivation is morbid curiosity or not I think it is worthwhile. Western Airlines Flight 2605 received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. but 18 inches of the right horizontal stabilizer, along with the right inboard and outboard elevators. It was a DGAC (Mexican) investigation. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks (The paper is easy to source online). A key result of the engine detachment and hydraulic failure was the atypical slat retraction of the DC-10 in these circumstances. how about the poor general aviation pilot, what chance (American Airlines 1420) Pilots exhibited more recklessness if they fell behind schedule especially if landing at night and other aircraft landed successfully before them. 1979 was the planes deadliest year. Pilot Gilbert got on the power (100%) before the impact with the truck and after Reichel calmly called to go around after everyone agreed they were at 23L. . I can't remember where I read the article, but it was very interesting. Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners Otherwise his assertions aren't serious. As an example, there is an immediate inconsistencies about what the tower is told the crew about approach lights and the ICAO report on the condition of those lights.[/quote]. 72 of the 88 people on board, plus 1 person on the ground, were killed. - para break moved, + para amended, by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contribution), at 20:30, 25 December 2019, - section created at 22:08, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.246.108.

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